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7 comments | Friday, February 24, 2006


…I might as well dig the hole deeper. In my previous post, I commented on the structure God has set up for marriage. Specifically, women are to submit to their husbands. Of course, this is qualified with how men are men are to love their wife as Christ loved the Church.

Following this lead, I want to comment a little on women in ministry; particularly, women preaching. As a side note, I am open to any objections to my position, so long as they are supported by scripture.

We find in the NT 1 Timothy 2:13-14 states "Let a woman learn in quietness with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; but to be in quietness."

At first glance, the passage comes off as somewhat blunt (at least it did to me); but let’s look at this in context. The second chapter of Timothy begins with the encouragement of sound doctrine and the proper behavior of followers of Christ. Appropriate behavior for both men and women are being addressed. Moreover, in verses 3-5 women are told to be:

“teachers of good things; that they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.”
As can be seen by setting the context, it’s not necessarily that women cannot teach per se, it’s more that they cannot teach in the capacity of making men submissive to them; this perceptibly would include teaching in the Church. Supporting this interpretation, John Piper says the following:

"Paul's argumentation in 1 Timothy 2:11-14 is that men ought to bear primary responsibility for leadership and teaching in the church (that is, be the elders): 1) because in creating man first God taught that men should take responsibility for leadership in relation to woman and 2) because the fall of Adam and Eve shows that the neglect of this divine pattern puts men and women in a more vulnerable position and leads to transgression.
This; however, does not imply that there are no specific and important roles for women. There are many areas where women are needed and are gifted in. God created us differently, for different purposes, both of which are of equal importance—but different roles (importance and roles should not be confused).
In effect, my position on women preaching is that there ought not to be any. However, if anyone wants to make a biblical case otherwise—I am still open.

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7 Comments:

Blogger BJ said...

I agree whole-heartly with your view. I do not believe a case can be made for women having the right to preach and teach over a man. Unless of course someone were to go outside of the Bible and construct a case. I have heard this before where a woman says that they just know, that they know God has called them to teach or preach. It is a inner-subjective felling they have not a scripture basd belief. Nice post.

2/24/2006 10:17 AM

 
Blogger The Intolerant One said...

I too agree with this position. I do, however, have one of those fine lines that I am not so sure about.

Example: A woman "speaker" as opposed to preacher comes to share her expeirences in the ministry field and intergrates God's word and how it applied in her circumstances. Sometimes these can really speak to others as people are learning from their expeirences. They are also encouraged by what God is doing in their ministry and lives. Is there a difference in your opinion?

We also know scripture recognises Prophetess's and Deaconess's. We know that prophets (whether they be female or male) do bring "inspired" messages from God. There have been times when prophets spoke to large gatherings. In these particular context's I would acknowledge the legitimacy of the individual. What are your thoughts on this? It can be fuzzy to some and may be what confuses others to accept women in pastorial roles.

On the other hand I do not recognise a female pastor, elder, etc. and therefore would personally choose not acknowledge it's leadership as I would see it in a role of defiance. Even though the intentions may be sincere.

I also feel that the reason alot of this is prevalent within today's church is that it would appear "feminism" has crept in. Any thought's on that?

Another good read!

2/24/2006 4:25 PM

 
Blogger Beowulf said...

Hi bj,

“Outsiders” like to critique to Christian structure of marriage and roles; however, when speaking of preaching, this really an “in house” dispute, hence, I could really care less what anyone has to say about it without Scripture. The problem I have is that there are some women far more knowledgeable, graceful, and helpful than some men. Their spirituality far exceeds their counter parts. But that’s the guys fault for not perusing grace and knowledge.

2/25/2006 10:06 AM

 
Blogger Beowulf said...

Intolerant one—nice to see you back,

You said:

”Example: A woman "speaker" as opposed to preacher comes to share her expeirences in the ministry field and intergrates God's word and how it applied in her circumstances. Sometimes these can really speak to others as people are learning from their expeirences. They are also encouraged by what God is doing in their ministry and lives. Is there a difference in your opinion? “

I think we need to make a distinction between speaker, and teacher. A woman sharing her knowledge and experiences in ministry can be very fruitful for both men and women. In fact, I would encourage it. Now, if a women takes a position in a Church that gives her authority over other Church members, this is where we must be careful and look at what Gods word has to say about it.

”We also know scripture recognises Prophetess's and Deaconess's. We know that prophets (whether they be female or male) do bring "inspired" messages from God. There have been times when prophets spoke to large gatherings. In these particular context's I would acknowledge the legitimacy of the individual. What are your thoughts on this? It can be fuzzy to some and may be what confuses others to accept women in pastorial roles.”

This is an excellent question!—I hade to sit and think for a few minuets about this. I think that women can teach with other men (Priscilla and Aquila). The men have the leading of authority in the teaching, but are helped by the women. It’s not as if women have nothing to offer. Next, I would say that the passage in the post on women teaching is not “all-encompassing.” It’s more that it details pasturing over men, but all other teaching options and scenarios are freely open.

As far as feminism, it’s definitely crept in the Church from our culture. This is why the subject is somewhat controversial. Endless discussion could be said just about this, but I am running out of time.

Thanks for dropping in.

2/25/2006 10:27 AM

 
Blogger The Intolerant One said...

Thanks for the clarity. I can see we are on the same page regarding this.

2/26/2006 12:18 AM

 
Blogger Cheryl Schatz said...

It is certainly possible to be in favor of women ministering to the entire body of Christ and be true to scripture in context. The arguments are placed side by side with the opposition in a very loving and gentle way in the new DVD called "Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?" The reviews of this DVD set can be found at http://mmoutreach.org/wim.htm. Even those who are opposed to women in ministry have found this DVD helpful and informative concerning the differences that both sides place on the context of the hard passages of scripture.

Cheryl

3/26/2006 7:01 AM

 
Blogger Beowulf said...

Cheryl,

My issue is not with women in ministry or teaching per se; I think there is a lot men (and women) that can benefit from the guidance of women. It’s more rooted in women in authority. A woman can minister to the body, but if she is taking a position of authority over the body, then that’s were the rub comes in. I’m always open if Scripture teaches otherwise.

Thanks for the link, I will check it out.

4/01/2006 11:34 AM

 

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